Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation

Elen..."Mr Jaggi's starting point was just this, deciding he wanted to be a mystical guru with millions of devoted followers catering to his every whim. He used his previous business acumen (and canny knowledge of human nature, innate needs and desires) to fashion a workable business model--probably studying the Maharishi and Rajneesh examples..."

Great observation, Elen. Hats off!!! Maharishi refers to Mahesh Yogi or Ramana Maharishi?

Elen... "I seriously doubt he has any interest or care in the minds or spiritual welfare of his followers."

He doesn't care about his own spiritual welfare, leave alone his followers'.

There is a new small juice shop opened in my area. I went there last week and there was a display of 'Hand made soaps' from Isha for sale!!!

Happyd... In one of your earlier posts, you said, "I've been collecting devotee experiences and testimonials from many different groups. Mostly to understand the group dynamics that hold people in the sway of the master, as well as understand my own experiences. Interesting, there really is nothing new or different with how these leaders control thier followers and how the followers justify their bondage to the master. I will be posting a few examples on here."  

ytseekmystic,
'Maharishi refers to Mahesh Yogi or Ramana Maharishi? '
 
I was referring to Mahesh Yogi of T.M. who pioneered the greedy guru business model in the west.

I have a very great deal of respect for the teachings of Ramana Maharshi (as he is generally known here) and Sri Nisargardatta. Clear, simple, timeless instruction with no unnecessary nonsense, what more could you ask?

Do you think that washing with Isha soap will help anyone's spiritual life? ; )

I agree with you that Mr Jaggi has no care even for himself. Most of these types become increasingly paranoid and crazy, terrified that someone will expose them or take their ill-gotten gains, hence the increasing tyranny and megalomania you see in these organisations over time.

Ellen ... "I was referring to Mahesh Yogi of T.M. who pioneered the greedy guru business model in the west."
 
Hi... Even I have great regard for Ramana Maharishi. He is one of the few genuine spiritual teachers I know. Even if one is not impressed with the way he taught...the fact is that he never exploited his followers for money or fame. He led a very very simple life.

 Do you think that washing with Isha soap will help anyone's spiritual life? : )
 
May be for those who haven't realized the potential of the Guru.
I found this website just now... http://www.ishashoppe.com/

There are some online references that Jaggi had studied under Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and Werner Erhard.

I don't know if there is any proof and SJV insists he is self-realized with no guru lineage, yet its an interesting speculation as his meditation/greedy guru style is rather similar to MMY and his business and persuasion techniques are similar to WE.

One of SJV's meditation techniques is mantra on a hindu deity name...just like TM mantras. This mantra is never to be discussed to another person, even to another isha devotee. Why not?

Also, there are many online discussions regarding the similarities between SJV and Osho. A devotee asked SJV a question regarding the Osho similarities, asking if perhaps Osho, after being murdered, had entered SVJ's body. 

http://www.kavitachhibber.com/main/main.jsp?id=sadhguru-Aug2007 

This kind of question shows the willingness devotees have to believe just about anything, never mind the conspiracy theory that his guru was murdered.. And, I am quite certain, if SJV told this person that Osho's soul travelled to another galaxy, played poker with a few aliens and then entered his body, that devotee would believe it....even posting in this forum that our logical minds and egos are getting in the way of our enlightenment. :)

Osho and the ego have been mentioned on unrelated topics. Thought I'd post a few things regarding them both in the same sentence. :)
 
SJV, as well as most gurus, teach surrender (usually to them) and letting go of the ego. Osho taught the same thing. Until a few months before his death. Perhaps it was the drugs talking, but the great enlightened master that has thousands of followers, finally admitted that the ego can not be dropped, it can only be observed.
 
It doesn't take any special meditation techniques to experience the 'ego-less' mind. We experience this state everyday when we 'zone out', day dream, watch movies, take a test, exercise, ride a roller coaster, take a nap, etc. If one sits to meditatie and lets go of thoughts, maybe brief moments of ego-lessness will occur. But just like all the other examples, once the practice is stopped, the ego steps right back in and its business as usual. Of course, there's mindfulness which will put the ego on the back burner at times, but it doesn't destroy the ego, it observes the ego.
 

Ytseekmystic,

- I've been researching the mystique of guru-dom for awhile now. Even though the information available can be overwhelming, I find glaringly specific common patterns throughout the different guru and group systems. Eventually, I will post those similarities between the guru groups, starting with the devotee testimonials.

One of the many persuasion techniques used by advertisers, marketers and politicians, is using someone else's testimonial to get your money, your loyalty or your vote. Testimonials are the main recruiting tools in guru groups, religions and cults. Some people use the testimonials (theirs and others) to prove their way is right. Testimonials easily become a new source of beliefs.

SJV encourages testimonials in all his programs and sathsangs. Yet testimonials of spiritual experiences are nebulous, emotional and personally biased. Yet they certainly enforce the group belief system.

- Btw, becoming a guru is really no big effort. India has millions of them and the smarter ones simply make their way to the west...to the land of milk and honey....to the pockets of the wealthy unsuspecting Americans. All those gurus in India, and they haven't solved any of India's problems....  
 
India has:
A high degree of business and political corruption. Caste discrimination. Children marriages. Massive population. Disabling economy and poverty. Its fair share of crimes, rapes, kidnappngs, drugs and women and children trafficking. In fact, India had the title of murder capital of the world in 2006 and 2007. Of course, every society has its problems, but why do the gurus value the American soul over the Indian soul (or the soul of the African, European, Mexican, etc)?

I attended an Inner Enginnering course a while ago, and decided to google for cults. Came upon this very interesting discussion. I have always been wary of yet fascinated by these kinds of programs. I had never really considered that they could be cults in the sense that I don't expect rational people to give up their lives and move into the ashram or communes, living enslaved in a self created alternate reality. I am usually more wary of them being frauds. Of pretending that they are offering something new or unique, when all they are doing is recycling some oft-repeated philosophies and formulae. I don't want to feel like I have been duped - specially if my money ends up being pocketed by a philandering god-man.

But I decided that for 250 bucks, even if all i heard was a repeat of hindu philosophies and a few pranayams, it wasn't too big a hit to my wallet. And that's basically what I found. There wasn't a single new idea or argument - not even the attempt to prove that vedas contain all the scientific knowledge we are discovering today or will discover in the future. I have heard it all before. The kriaya is not new - it's a combination of well known pranayams. I didn't see anything harmful in it - unless you think Pranayam is harmful.

The desire to keep it a secret is understandable from a - this is the only thing we have to sell so don't give it away for free - veiwpoint. The RIAA doesn't like you to dowload music illegally either. What I disliked strongly was the implied threat that if you did try to teach someone the kriya, you were seriously risking a mental breakdown.  I don't like threats. I had joined the program out of curiosity, and as a way to become more disciplined about pranayam and maybe learn to meditate. So I still didn't see much harm.  But then they started talking about Isha as a path to enlightenment, Isha as a social revolution and about other programs that they offered. I started getting caught up in the enthusiasm. If I could be calmer and more loving, and others could too, then wasn't it a good thing? They asked us to recommend the program to others. Gave us some material to distriubute. Told us it was up to us to make sure the movement took hold in our city. I saw the enthusiam - even fervor - of some of the volunteers. They're all good people. You could even say selfless - they believe in this strongly and are giving of themselves.  There is a feeling of community. These might be nice people to hang out with.

But to recommend this to someone - I started to think about what the program was.  I have a very healthy level of scepticism about these things. I also know a fair bit of hindu mythology and philosopy. I recongnise when ideas are being repackaged and sold as new. So I'm not that easly enthralled by the sales pitch. I had taken this program for a very specific reason  - and while I enjoyed letting myself participate fully in it, I was ultimately going to keep only the parts I felt were useful. But if I recommended it to someone, I would have to first make sure they were similarly equipped. Or I would have to warn them about the things that made me uneasy.

What made me the most uneasy was that some people - specially ameircans - seemed to be getting swept away. I don't know if they too were just caught up in the moment - hopefully that was it. But I began to worry that some people seemed to be buying into the idea of achieving higher conciousness in 3 easy steps and of not questioning and of putting your thinking mind aside. I looked at some of the full time volunteers  who had given up their lives to just work for ISHA and thought - i am mentally prepared for this to be nothing more than a business - but are they? What will happend to them if Satguru is revealed to be a self serving fraud? Some of the signs are there - there is no dialogue, questioing is not encouraged, getting more people to join is strongly encouraged -specially 'influencial' people. And if I recommend this to people, and they end up taking it too serously, how will I feel? I think the basic program could provide some benifit for people looking for an introduction to eastern thought, and to meditation. But don't think I am comfortable recommending this to anyone but people who I know are like me - people who will go in with an open mind and not turn off their brains. It could be a great movement where we are all working together in love and joy towards social programs for education, rural empowerment and the environment. But it could just as easly not be.

Now I'm in a quandry - I am kind of curious about BSP, becuase I think there is still a part of my mind that is thinking - what if this is real? Wouldn't it be an intersting experience?! At the same time I'm worried - it's a fully resediantial program - who knows what's in the food. Plus, what if it's uncomfortable or downright scary? Will I be able to leave? How strong is the group-think? Is there a danger I will begin to get brainwashed? I would like to meet Satguru and see what he's like. What do you think? Is there harm in going for BSP?

I like the people I met through the class so I'm going to continue to go for the monthly (or more frequent!) gatherings. They have good hearts, are very sincere and the conversations are not just about Isha. Let's see if that lasts. Or if I slowly become indoctinated into a cult...

Seeker,
You seem to have done your homework. I have no doubt you continue to use your 'logical mind' to interpret your life and situations you find yourself in. You have described an accurate overview of Isha.
 
As you noticed, SJV doesn't say anything new. I completely agree with you, Isha is repackaged pranayams with a price tag. I don't mind paying money to learn something new either. But, they should not be marketing (and selling) the meditation as a path to enlightenment, bliss or the answer to the world's problems. This is the religious way. A true spiritual person gives the gift and does not sell it. (Btw, anyone who can not afford Isha is turned away). The doom and gloom stories that befall anyone who practices these without paying their $300 is a common threat to keep the money flowing.
 
All self-help groups, religions or guru gatherings have a sense of cohesion, social revolution and comraderie unto themselves. Ask anyone in the military...a mutual belief in a 'cause' will foster this sense of community. Patriotism is a group-think cohesion. I'm not saying that comraderie is bad...its just not exclusive to Isha.
 
Sure, isha-ites are quite nice to be around...at least in sathsangs, group practices and isha gatherings. See the same people in their daily life and you will question what Isha Yoga has really done for them. They still have the same problems, the same emotional issues, the same inner drama in their lives that they had before. They still believe they have the one true path and judge everyone else as outsiders needing to be saved. They may, once in awhile, be able to muster a smile when someone cuts them off in the grocery line. But the inner turmoil is still very much alive. In fact, some devotees have asked SJV why they get angry or agitated very quickly or without reason after years of practicing Isha yoga. SJV anwers that this is actually a good sign, that the devotee is breaking though his/her illusions. What?!  So, if the experience is peace, it proves isha is working. But if the experience is anger, resentment and irrationality, it also proves isha is working? How convenient.
 
 
When I first saw the quote below, I labeled it as being from an obviously destructive cult. Nothing like Isha so it wouldn't pertain to me. However, the more I looked objectively at Isha-ites and the isha mission statement, the more I began to appreciate the quote. I feel it is worth posting here since one can not argue the fact of Sadhguru-enthralled devotees that recruit with fervor...
 
 
“When you meet the friendliest people you have ever known, who introduce you to the most loving group of people you’ve ever encountered, and you find the leader to be the most inspired, caring, compassionate and understanding person you’ve ever met, and then you learn the cause of the group is something you never dared hope could be accomplished, and all of this sounds too good to be true-it probably is too good to be true! Don’t give up your education, your hopes and ambitions to follow a rainbow.”
 - Jeannie Mills, Ex-member of The People’s Temple, later found murdered
 
 
No, I'm in no way saying that isha is a destructive cult that spikes the kool-aid. My point is that a casual observer can see the similarities of the group mission and devotee behaviors between isha and other 'save the world' groups. (Or save yourself first thus in turn you will save the world...its the same idea)
 
 
 

Regarding BSP

No, they don't drug the food! But if the objective was to get group control, spacey minds and hypnotic persuasion, they wouldn't have to.

There are lots of other ways to do that. :)

But all in all, if you're curious, I wouldn't say you shouldn't go. I'm the curious type myself and I'm glad for the experience.  If anything, just to be able to post on this forum and offer another point of view on Isha.

Did I have 'experiences'? yes
Were they real? I have no idea.
Do I think I achieved anything real or permanent? Doubt it...but I'm leaning towards no.

BSP is basically a self-propelled emotional roller coaster. If you want to ride the coaster, you can fuel it with your own emotions and beliefs. Otherwise, you'll feel or experience nothing special. It really is up to you. I saw people going through emotional fits, while others stood around rolling their eyes.

Just keep your eyes and ears open (like you have been) and you will be fine.
You can PM me and I'll answer any questions you might have.

happyd, thanks for your response. Of course the Isha people are the same in their personal life - one 7 day course does not a miracle make. And so far, they do seem to realize - for the most part - that they are the same. They think Isha is a good path - but so far they don't seem to think that it is the only way. And a lot of them refuse to give up onions, garlic or caffine. ;)    Of course, I've mostly interacted with people who've taken only Inner Engineering, or just IE and BSP. And haven't been involved for more than a year. Except the teacher, who seemed to be completely brainwashed and parroted Satguru right down to the 'Isn't is so' and 'Please see'.  
 
 We'll see how it goes. I agree with you -  camaradrie is not exclusive to Isha. But it's not a bad thing. And as long as it can be maintained without pressure to get more involved or recruit others, it won't become a bad thing. I guess I'm not too upset at the idea that Isha is in the business of relegion - most relegions seem to be. I feel that as long as what they teach does more good than harm, it's ok. And they can charge as much as people are willing to pay. All the self help people out there do. And isn't this just another repackaged self help program with a litte relegion thrown in to appeal to a slightly different demographic?  In fact, when they talked about the difference between reaction and response, I thought of Stephen Covey. They're fairly easy to see through - and if someone does take them too seriously as a spiritual path, well - buyer beware. I guess maybe that's a naive way to look at it. Specially if they do go the full cult route and people who get sucked in can't get out.
 
I haven't decided yet if I'll go for BSP. I'll see how the next few months go. But if I consider going, i'll probably have more questions for you.

Happyd,
'This mantra is never to be discussed to another person, even to another isha devotee. Why not?'
 
It reinforces the secrecy and specialness, as well as keeping the paying punters coming in for their own special mantra and technique. Ex TM-ers find it difficult to disclose their own mantras years after leaving. When enough of them did they found that these 'very special individually chosen mantras' were well-known and common invocations to hindu gods and goddesses.

They were not individually hand picked to suit the new member either but assigned from a very short list according to the age and gender of the new member. Any meaningless sound would work just as well.
The techniques are generic too and can be found in any competent book on meditation and yoga. They are all originally culled from the Patanjali sutras. (You could buy a good translation on Amazon and set yourself up as a guru tomorrow if you wanted to--others clearly have done just that.)

I've heard this described as 'selling sand on the beach' or 'selling water by the river' as in truth, you don't even need a book from Amazon except to clear away the confusions that Mahesh Yogi, Rajneesh and countless other business people have stirred up.

Its the distortions and deceptions, the betrayal of trust that being sold (at a hugely inflated price) a simple generic technique as some kind of magic key to fix everything and make dreams come true--that does the damage. A true and nasty con, no matter how prettily Mr Jaggi packages it.
Its like his soap, all the pretty packaging doesn't change the fact that it is the same as any other soap--you use it to wash with and then it goes down the drain, no matter how slick the advertising or how much you pay for it.

But the isha devotees DO think isha yoga is the special and best way.
And they DO think they are better than they were before they found isha yoga.

And SJV says his way is the best and fastest (not the only) way to the divine.

I'm glad you noticed how the teacher is a complete carbon copy of SJV. The isha volunteers explain this, that through grace, SJV actually does the teaching - through the teacher. At the dyana linga temple, they say that SJV magically morphs through the volunteers to play music or sing a song to praise the lingam. There are altars to SJV all over the ashram.  Isha devotees are encouraged to chant devotional songs that hail SJV and shiva.

So if anyone is still wondering what Isha yoga is really all about....

Seeker,
 
'I didn't see anything harmful in it - unless you think Pranayam is harmful.'

The Pranayam or any other practice is not harmful done in moderation. But what Happyd describes is a total immersion in a world of Isha-think, the robot teacher channelling SJV, the onmipresence of the god-man through magical means, altars and the encouragement to worship--all in a closed world with no outside influence to counteract this oneway subtle pressure or to give another perspective.

This stuff is still in use because it works, it appeals to an inner need we all have for certainty in an uncertain world.
It works like boiling a frog--if you put the frog in a pot of hot water it will jump right out, you have to put the frog in a pot of cold water and heat it up slowly, that way the frog doesn't notice the heat until too late, he is cooked.

Take a good book or ipod with you so when the water starts warming up you can at least break the spell of the group-think.

There's probably no harm in going to one scientology meeting either.

And why not join scientology? There seems to be lots of success stories, social reform, charitable causes, group comraderie and a save-the-world ideology in scientology. There is also a search for a relationship with the divine, or supreme being, while following the teachings of the one true leader...who both claim that enlightenment is scientifically achievable.

Scientology has followers who are doctors, lawyers, students and even famous actors. Scientology has impressive testimonials:

“Scientology has helped my marriage. We have learned to understand our children as fellow human beings rather than yell and scream at them. Scientology is the best single thing we have done and we are now in control of our lives. What more could one ask?” -TB (scientologist)
“After the Purification Rundown, I was more aware of my environment around me and I felt more alive, with much more energy." -WM (scientologist)

Scientology helped Tom Cruise beat dyslexia, made Jerry Seinfeld a better comedian, helped Juliette Lewis face her fears....

If the word scientology was not used in this post, it would have looked like the typical advertisement for Isha yoga

Hello lovely people-
I can understand the cult fears. There's a lot of wacky stuff out there. Probably I would have discounted the whole thing had I not experienced Sadhguru's yoga at such depth myself.   I am actually staunchly independent-minded, stubborn, and quite analytical.  My degree was in molecular biology for God's sake!;)  So it turns out, life really isn't that convenient and comfortable to always be put under a microscope in full view or reasoned out through algebraic equation.  It isn't just beige toast, halleluiah!  Life is an explosion of variation--colors, flavors, and expressions of every understandable and unfathomable form--much like this blog.;)

I've been doing the Isha practice for seven years and it has completely altered my life. I'm now looking for the next comet to ride into the cosmos in hopes of encountering the Zirconian leader of the 3rd galaxy of the 9th dimension;)...  Ok, not really.   Still, Sadhguru has opened up my life to a whole other way to be.  No, I'm not drunk, fanatical, 'freaking out', confused, desperate, needy, etc, but probably there are those doing the Isha practices who are because there are lots of people doing the practices.  Actually, when I look at it, working within a large corp. there are quite a lot of these problems emerging every day there as well.  Ever met a Mac fanatic?  Now Apple Computer, THERE is a cult (another to which I fervently belong--c'mon try it just once and you'll never go back to pc;).  There are a whole variety of people in every setting, I suppose.

What I can tangibly say about my experience of Sadhguru's practices is that gradually, gradually I have arrived at a place where nothing flusters me at all anymore.  Nothing can trip me up-my life is smooth.  I'm pretty much always happy and it gives me a tremendous freedom to see and serve the needs of others around me.  Any sad or angry impulse doesn't find 'root' in me anymore because I'm so aware of the thought that created it the moment it arises.  I don't really have to listen and believe all the various meanders of my mind, which still goes on and on in the foreground.  I am acutely aware of my mind's habits and it sits at a slight distance from the observing consciousness that is the true 'me.'   I use my mind, sure, but I am not totally enslaved to my mental process.  It has taken a number of years of meditative practice, but it is a huge freedom.  Do I think I'm some lofty, special, 'enlightened' being or something?  No, I think every human being was supposed to be like this.  I guess too much X-box, Starbucks and reality tv really fries the neurons.  Who knows?  I  just know this.  I wish every human being acquires this one freedom, however he gets there-- the awareness to have freedom from the mental process.  It changes everything.

I will also add that, yes, I have had some absolutely mind-blowing experiences in the context of both programs and practices.  I have experienced the kind of ecstatic love that Rumi wrote poems about-- a love without boundaries where every person seems as precious as your very own child, where even a single leaf on a tree resonates with some other-worldly elegance and beauty.  I've also experienced expanded states of consciousness where I gained access to different aspects of my subconscious mind at the same time.  It was absolutely incredible to be able to observe, unattached, these various functions and come to a greater understanding of the mechanisms underlying the mind.

About Sadhguru-- I met Sadhguru early enough in his visits to the United States that I've had ample time to sit and talk with him in both small and large group settings.  I've attended just about every program multiple times.  I've volunteered dozens of times.  I've never seen him behave with anything other than the utmost integrity.  I admire the fearlessness with which he's offered these aspects of yoga which are very subtle, but powerful and are open to massive misinterpretation. I suppose that's why most authentic yoga masters stick to very small groups of yogis who have some understanding of what is being imparted.  I'm sure he's aware that public misunderstanding, fear, and lots of flack are inevitable.  Still he offers it.  I can only guess it's because he'd like to see us stop bombing each other.=)

About Isha-- I do not consider myself an "Ishite" although I've been very involved in programs and whole-heartedly support the practice Sadhguru offers because of what it has done for me.  In fact, if anybody thinks there IS such a thing as an 'Ishite' then they don't understand what yoga is.

I have a fairly wealthy family. I have never been asked to give ANYTHING to Sadhguru or the Isha organization.  Of course fund raising does happen, it's a non-profit organization.  Funds are raised for various building projects, such as the meditation halls, etc., but I've never seen any pressure put on anyone to give anything.  I have spent months staying at both the ashram in India and the U.S. for little-to-no money at all--all I've ever been asked was to care for the place that I am living as if it were my own home--I have baked bread, and cooked soup, and cleaned my own bathroom... I have helped decorate the halls with flowers and clean walking trails, and serve food to others... I have helped plant vegetables and mend a fence and paint t-shirts... and I have meditated for hours in absolute peace.

There are much more egregious acts going on in the world than yoga.  Perhaps focus more energy where it's really needed.

m interesting to read this rant. what do you mean by 'fearless' offering of the sadhguru?. too many adjectives and too many repeatable words of same meaning. first this is very personal way of you being hoodwinked by these gurus. i haveen to isha foundation and been to the lingam place. the story of the lingam is completely alien to the Cross and other religious symbol sticking on the lingam. there is no connection with any of them with the lingam. I dont know anyone thinking - you may have studied science but its different from understanding these in scientific perspective -  understanding and analyzing these facts can follow - whats the meaning of ths stupid follow or getting enlightment - these idiots or cheats. its sad we still have these guys coming from india and other places to pitch their philosophy. may be J.Krishnamoorthy is the one said about all these practices right. good luck. please dont impose your insecurity on others as universal truth. yoga - practice it as exercise, thats all and it was never invented by these gurus. period. And all these guys talks about energy. whats this nonsense and just blimp of few brain cells running with chemicals same as you take drugs.

It's extremely difficut -- perhaps even impossible -- to know what someone else cares about. How would we know what's going on in Mr Jaggi's mind? Wouldn't that involve guess-work?

That's why it's so much more to-the-point to look into our own thinking. What do I care about? What do I want? Why do I live in this world? We can look into our own minds intimately. It's very different from speculating about what someone else cares about.

Being a practitioner and initate of Isha Yoga & going through the IIIS & BSP, I never donated one dime except to pay for the programs.  I never go into a so-called guru with my full-fledged devotion as I believe no one person can provide you with the answers to ALL you seek.  And since Isha brings is tons & tons & tons of money, I feel they don't need my donations; they can get those from the people who are gullible enough to pay for someone else's property and habits.

Hence yesterday I read an article that Sadhguru allegedly killed his wife (he said she died of cancer & they do have a daughter who is probably about 20 now) but I have been SICK about this article.  Again I am not a devout Isha devotee, but I am deeply disturbed!  Someone else posted the article but I'm curious who else out there has heard about this and what are your thoughts?  (this is from a August 2009 publication that speaks of the "conspiracies" involving the Hindu Temple of Georgia.)

Anyone???

When I got involved with Sadhguru, he was still attainable...as in you could sit or stand and speak with him.  My understanding now is, it's pretty hard to even be in his presence.  He DOES has charisma!  He jokes, laughs & cusses.. I liked him yet hated him at the same time.  His teachings at Inner Ingineering was not new information for me, so I fell asleep alot AND he does not like when you fall asleep in his presence.  And he did call one chic on her over-zealot screaming and body shaking (I think she was definitely getting on his nerves as she was mine).  He spoke of people bowing at his feet; of course it is not a requirement and most Americans did not although most Indians did.  He explained that Sadhguru meant "uneducated" (by degreed education) guru with only personal experience & enlightenment.

The biggest issues I had with being at his programs, you are NOT allowed to go the restroom when you need to and if you are puking at the BSP, you have to puke in a bucket in the backroom as, again, you are not allowed to visit the RR unless he says.  You are also NOT allowed to leave the grounds or the Hall when "work" is being done.  I did feel trapped a few times when in GA at BSP.  And, no we're not supposed to talk about what happens inside and my guess was so that others would have to pay to get his info/message/release or whatever you want to call it.

I'm still pretty upset about my new findings and just wish someone could clarify.  I have no real doubt that it could have happened (for reasons I will not go into) but WHO really knows? anyway??