Byron Katie's School For The Work March '09

the truth will set you free!! great blog! more later...df

Continuing...

The participants:  In addition to a group (approx. 250) impressive in the number of newbies to The Work and repeaters (seeking Certification or to reprise their previous experiences in bliss), there were a remarkable number of people who were obviously mentally ill.  Depression and Anxiety (Social phobias, Specific phobias, Generalized Anxiety, etc.) were to be expected, as were a fine spread of the more benign Personality Disorders (Obsessive-Compulsive, Hystrionic, Dependent were all well-represented).  And there were participants with milder forms of Impulse Control Disorders (ADD/ADHD and hypomania).  But there were also a scattering of the scarier Personality Disorders (Anti-Social, Paranoid, Schizoid and Schizotypal). Bipolar I and II, while not admitted, were apparent.  And there was undoubtedly a few people who were hallucinating, delusional, or delirious. 

I'd have thought Katie would have screened more carefully to reduce her liability in these cases, but she actually seemed to welcome the more severely disturbed.  I was aware that no deliberate or careful screening of mental and physical problems appeared in on-line registration.  Signing up involved giving demographic info, sending money that would not be refunded, and not much else. We was not asked about diagnosis or medication until we arrived...a bit too late to shoo away people who had come from all over the world.  And there was that Surrender exercise at the beginning, where the message was very mixed: give us your supplements, vitamins, medications you don't really need (as if the truly sick could make that decision well) AND if you are prescribed meds, you should take them. Several people gave up prescribed sleep medications and anxiolytics and this was applauded with comment from Katie, "If you can't sleep at night, contact the staff member on call and they will sit with you.  If you experience discomfort, do it here in the room with us during the day.  If you have to sleep, do that here, too."  It didn't take long before moaning, crying, agitated behaviors were the norm in the room well before fasting and 15-hour days of intense emotional work took their toll.  And most staff and participants just left the suffering alone, ignored it or staffed it by listening to the sufferer do The Work again and again.  Some people cried off and on throughout the entire school.  Often people were crying so hard or were so anxious, they could not be understood when they took the microphone and tried to tell their experience.  And sharing those experiences was an expectation.  If you hadn't taken the mike yet, staff asked you why.  I'm unclear on this, but I believe one repeater either had to go the mental hospital during this school or had done so in a previous school.  In other words, the mentally ill and the neurotic, alike, decompensated and this was encouraged under the philosophy of The School.

The Shame module was perhaps the most disturbing unit in the School.  I believe this took place in the morning of Day Three, although I admit to losing track of what day it was (we were always either in the windowless conference room, on the 30-minute silent and led walks around the blocks nearby, or, briefly, on the grassy lawn in front of the hotel or in the halls of the hotel when we were set free to do The Work with a partner).  In the Shame unit, we were instructed to write down the thing we'd done in our lives that we were most ashamed of, then take the mike and tell the whole group, then do The Work on it with a partner.  Shaming is a subtle but powerful component of psychological abuse used in every torture and mind control process.  People stood up and, sobbing or preening, revealed everything from  bestiality and zoophilia to embarrassing physical features, infidelity to poor parenting that bordered on abuse.  Many people told of having been abused and shamed by that.  The reward for producing a novel or particularly painful shame experience was Katie's cooing, warm approval and attention.  This was such a powerful exercise that, for the next few days, Katie would interrupt whatever exercise was in process to say that so-and-so desired to tell about their shame.  Folks who had kept quiet during the Shame module apparently could not resist being part of it all, taking that microphone, and joining Katie's "family." Although Katie said, after the confessions had begun, that we should not reveal anything illegal, many seemed not to understand that bestiality, child abuse, etc., were illegal in the US.

At all times, there was a staff member in the back of the room speaking very softly into a dictophone, recording every story and event.  Katie's books are largely made up of these stories and a release is signed at the beginning, giving permission for your stories to be used.  One could literally feel the next book taking shape in that room.  It might have been a "voluntary" exploitation, but exploitation it was, nonetheless.

More later.

Thank you so much. Please keep the information coming. Hopefully many people will be helped by this.

You may want to read this blog:
http://janakisstory.wordpress.com

I've just begun to read the blog you link to, here.  Naturally, I didn't "follow the simple instructions" and began to read from the Conclusion, backward.  I couldn't stand the suspense, had to know what I was wading into.  I read Time Magazine backwards, too.  In fact, I hadn't a hope in hell of conforming to The School for the Work, given my individualistic nature. Thank you.  I've got a heap of reading to do, now.  I'll get back to you in a few days when I'm further along.  And I've yet to write about Katie's behavior or Staff behaviors.  My family has got to be so sick of hearing about this.

Thankyouandno, heads up.  Check this link out.

Thank you so much for posting this.  I was just about to start filling out an application for The School of the Work today.  I am working with a certified facilitatior of The Work and she is encouraging me to go.  I had a wierd feeling about this facilitator the last time we met and I decided to google "Byron Katie critisim" to get some more information about The School.  I'm so glad I came across your posts.  You have saved me time, money and especially from being taken advantage of.  I'm very grateful.  But, on the other hand I'm sad because I really believe The Work is a powerful tool too.
Take Care

Keira, I love The Work, too.  I applaud any intervention or technique that helps us interrupt an uncomfortable story long enough to think about what's happening rather than being what's happening.  There are lots of great techniques for this.  Stepping out of a miserable story to gain some perspective is the healthiest thing we can do, I think.  And I honor so many of Katie's teachings, just as I honor similar teachings from Lao Tzu, the Dalai Lama, Thich Nut Hanh, Alan Watts, Ken Keyes, etc.  These things don't belong to any one person; if these teachings are truly wisdom, then copyrights are superfluous.  I perceived territorality, greed, manipulation, internal organizational conflict, unnecessary stressors, etc., at The School.

I think that I was in a very small minority at The School.  The majority of participants apparently loved what happened to them there when they "just followed the simple instructions" and trusted Katie explicitly.  It is my nature, however, to be skeptical.  And, however much I hoped that The School would be so attractive it would charm me away from my skepticism, I couldn't help noticing the things that jarred, that were inconsistent, or that seemed to flaunt or exploit the power imbalance between Katie's organization and the rest of us.  I felt like Dorothy in The Wizard when the curtain lifted on The All-Powerful Oz: almost more sorry than angry.  And I could see that the principle of Avoidance of Cognitive Dissonance nearly guaranteed that the participants would knock themselves out to insure that The School and Katie were all they had paid for, hoped for, sacrificed for.

I have to check in with myself, "Why am I posting here?"  One, I need to vent to someone besides friends and family to help me process the experience...not sure why it helps to slightly formalize the venting, but it seems to.  Two, I wish I had been able to find more than just Rick Ross's forum when I was trying to make the decision to attend The School.  Ross is too easily dismissed for his own background.  Still, I wrote Katie a letter about the posting on that forum and got a letter back, purportedly from Katie, stating that all the exercises were entirely voluntary.  So, I treated them that way while I was at The School.  If I was exhausted, I returned to my room (I can't sleep on a floor at my age).  If I needed more protein than was offered, I bought it.  If I needed exercise (discouraged beyond the short daily stroll), I took time to get it.  It clearly states in the provided material, however, that criteria for receiving a Diploma includes attendance and participation in all exercises and sessions.  And that was just the beginning of the perceived pressures.  There was a lot of sensory deprivation and sensory manipulation, in my opinion. And the Staff cadre was large and they were everywhere, roaming the room continually, peering into the faces of participants who dozed or listened with closed eyes.  It makes no sense to me to over-stress your students and then have to manage their reactions with constant staff vigilance.  I like my wisdom delivered as honey, rather than vinegar; life had plenty of vinegrette moments for me to do The Work on before I ever showed up at The School.  I needed respite and self-care, not shock treatment.  Maybe I just didn't read the description of The School clearly enough on Katie's website.

I encourage you, don't just take it from me.  Take a look at Janaki's post here and link to her blog.  Spend the time to do some tedious but important googling.  And, finally, trust yourself.  I had to go find out.  As Katie instructs, I "did My School," and "I got what I came for."  It was just not at all what I'd hoped for.  The Work stands the test, for me.  The School didn't.

At Byron Katie's website, it says of the school:

"You'll be welcomed into a joyous, diverse, supportive family where you can be completely yourself without fear of judgment, perhaps for the first time in your life."

Sure doesn't seem like that's the case. At all.

And regarding the food:

"What is the food like? Great! You'll enjoy three meals a day in a large dining room, choosing from a wide variety of dishes. The vast majority of the dishes are vegetarian, and often vegan. Organic ingredients are used whenever possible, and individual dietary requests can be accommodated if doctor-prescribed. Breakfasts include eggs or a similarly hearty main dish; one or more hot cereals; several types of fresh and dried fruit; and nondairy as well as dairy milks. Lunches and dinners feature at least two main dishes, a plentiful array of salads, and numerous side dishes of vegetables, legumes, and grains. Our chefs love to express their creativity in a setting as joyful as ours."

I went to the 1999-2000 Byron Katie New Year's Cleanse.  The turning of the millenium did make my experience a bit more intense, but I certainly did not expect what happened--I ended up completely ungrounded and by the next day had developed a thought disorder that kept me out of work for a few months. I did a partial fast  during the event and I think that was a major contributor to the ungroundedness.  I later heard from soneone else that they knew someone else who had some kind of mental breakdown during the same event. 
       I emailed the organization to report this and to suggest that there be wording to warn people that fasting can be dangerous for some people, etc., but I guess they didn't take the suggestion, which is reckless and irresponsible.
      I see it like this--some of us are on the rigid side, and can benefit from theirr minds being loosened up for a little while.. Some of us are already on the loose side, and will be damaged by further loosening. 
       A longer term aftereffect was that I felt an existential emptiness that did not feel like freedom but rather cold and purposeless.  Looking at others as my projection, which was talked about in The Cleanse, went against my desire to see others as truly human beings with whom I could share warm feelings.
      Just as the potential side effects of medicine are listed with the product, I think the potential side effects of these kind of mind-changing interventions should be listed on their pamphlets and website.

Redwoods, I too got unhinged by doing "The Work". I disagree with those who claim that The Work" apart from Byron Katie is wonderful. I find the Turnaround aspect of The Work in particular to be quite disorienting and guilt-inducing.

I was very lucky that I managed to find criticism of Byron Katie/The Work shortly before I was going to sign up for her 9-day school. If I got unbalanced doing The Work on my own, I can only imagine what might have happened had I done the school.

I'm so thankful that people are speaking up about their experiences.

Yes, the description of The School on Katie's site does, indeed, sound delightful.  And I was so desirous of being delighted.  I expected something gentler and kinder than I got.  I'm sure other people had other experiences, but I stopped experiencing gentleness and welcome by, at the latest, midway through Day 2.  I kept looking for the pony in that pile, thereafter, but with a lot more caution and self-protection.  One thing I took from the school: you can't expect people to take care of you; you have to be ready to take care of yourself.  Of course, Life's delivered that message pretty consistently already.  And Katie encouraged self-care, but then did not make it easy or foster inclusion for those who acted on it.  I did see staff being very kind and gentle with some people.  There were some folks who got sick or were struck with aches and pains.  I saw staff bringing pillows, ice, showing gentle concern.  Yet, somehow, I did not experience that, or the likelihood of that, personally.  Maybe it was precisely because I was determined to take care of myself...eat what I needed by purchasing it separately, rest when I needed by skipping exercises or sessions if necessary...that made me feel cut off.  Perhaps a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Nevertheless, there it was and it was not all, entirely my own projection.  I was fortunate to be acquainted with someone there who felt free to share their perceptions.  I checked those out pretty carefully:  "Is it ME, or does thus-and-such unforeseen and unfortunate thing seem to be happening?"  I had read somewhere, before the school, that Katie would ask people to leave the school if she thought they were problematic.  And she specifically stated that anyone caught marketing anything at all or were caught with weapons would be ejected immediately (and I saw no weapons, but a couple of people tried to sell me something).  So I knew it was possible to rub The School folks wrong.  Somehow, I intuited that you wouldn't have to go so far as marketing or having a weapon to get kicked out.  It was Katie's "Family," after all, and she called the shots.

As to The Work being disorienting...Yep, I think it often is, for even the most self-protected, and perhaps can always be destabilizing for some folks.  Those turnarounds are a bitch sometimes!  I could tell from what newbies were sharing at The School that several people were starting to come unglued after a couple of days.  Some folks seemed sort of unglued from the beginning.  There was a general decompensation over the days.  As time passed, I began to be worried that some folks wouldn't recover adequately before they left.

So I agree with Redwoods and Gimmeshelter, there needs to be some kind of warning or screening...both so that folks can get an accurate picture of what takes place and make more informed choices about this particular, very strong "medicine," and so The School can operate more efficiently.  I'm into Katie's business with this last statement.  Speaking for myself, then, it bothered me to see so many people crying, groaning, looking sad, depressed, or confused so much of the time.  I thought I would see lots of smiles and relaxed faces there.  What I mostly saw were either blank or sad/mad/confused faces.  There were be sudden guffaws or giggles, true...but they would often come out of the blue and inappropriately.  There was some big-time LOOSENING going on there...and that might be desired effect or it might be symptomatic of something seriously wrong.  One size definitely does not fit all.  The blank looks seemed most apparent in the staff members and the people who were Repeaters. 

Yes, it was very much as if they were entirely self-referencing.  It often looked robotic or affectively blank.  There was a failure to engage another person...EXCEPT when The Work was in progress.  Doing The Work with Staff was a crazy-making experience.  They might not make eye-contact at any other point in nine days, but they were entirely present while doing The Work.  They opened up and became real people while doing The Work on themselves.  They might insist on a big hug at the end. Then, next time you saw them, they would usually look past you like you weren't there.  The Work (which, while acting as Facilitator, required strict adherence to the questions exactly as written and no commentary, otherwise...just listening) was the only readily available means of connecting with anyone else there.  The rest of the time, we were either silent or listening to Katie or listening to someone sharing on the microphone in front of everyone.  I did have the impression that the staff was extremely stressed and that there were internal problems there.  There were several indications that all was not well between Katie and some Staff members.

A note on the food.  Yes, the description on the School site is literally accurate and I expected vegetarian fare.  What I did not expect was how tasteless or disgusting that might be.  I've been a strict vegetarian for periods of many years, twice in my life.  Currently, it's difficult to get enough protein to meet some special medical needs and I've returned to the carnivorous state.  What I do know is how well-cooked vegetarian foods and vegan fare can taste.  I've got lots of experience cooking and eating that way.  This food was unnecessarily bland and unimaginative.  The hotel staff apparently screwed up and put salt and pepper on the tables the first day.  We never saw it again, thereafter.  Some days eggs were only available on a table marked, "Pre-arranged Special Diets."  That would be like parking in the handicapped space just because it's nearer to the store...I didn't want to take someone else's eggs.  Cheese was usually available and yogurt in the mornings.  Sometimes there would be a sprinkling of cheese in a prepared dish. Breakfast, in fact, was usually pretty good.  But the fish, which showed up a few times, was utterly plain baked whitefish.  I ate it because I needed the protein, but I came to dread meals...the steam-table smells of recycled food (tofu squares with peas, quinoa, steamed plain cauliflower) and the enforced silence (people walk around with signs that say "SILENCE.)"    A friend of mine had gone to Kripalu for a 3-day Intensive and said the food was fabulous..launching a description that made me eager to return to vegetarian eating.  I think there was just no effort to make the food good at The School.  Or perhaps the hotel kitchen couldn't accomplish the task.  Or perhaps there was some budget-cutting going on.  Katie would say I'm definitely off into a story now!  Vegetarian and vegan food does not have to be lousy.  There was one item, served one time, that I really enjoyed: a veggie burger that I slathered with mustard.  It was probably pre-prepared and shipped to the kitchen;  it was far too good to have been prepared from scratch by our hotel cooks.  Or maybe that was just the mustard.  Obviously, I'm a bit food-focused.

"I'm into Katie's business with this last statement."
 
Consider this....Katie has said she wants to get The Work to the entire world. She's got a whole web page that features all kinds of ways to "Move The Work", including advice to "Send Someone to a Katie Event".
 
Um, like, isn't SHE being in everyone else's business with this "Move The Work" stuff?

I'm one of those people who finds The Work valuable, attended the School a few years ago, and prefers to do The Work on my own. I have a couple of thoughts to add.

It seems a lot of people have problems with the turnaround, in terms of guilt and self-recrimination. I think of the turnaround in two ways. One, it help me notice when I'm really projecting my stuff totally onto someone else. "He's being unreasonable." turns around to "I'm being unreasonable." When it's true (and the point is to investigate whether it is or not), I don't just stop and feel guilty. I actually decide to change what I'm doing to be more reasonable. Without that last part, acting on the turnaround, I don't think it would be useful.

The other times turnarounds are useful is when my beliefs have been blinding me and confirmation bias has kept me from realizing it. (See Confirmation bias in Wikipedia.) Exploring a turnaround sometimes helps me realize I've been missing something important that would cause me to revise my belief.

For example, "Katie is an enlightened being" turns around to "Katie is not an enlightened being." When I explore that, I discover that anything that convinced me she's enlightened can also be interpreted differently, so I can believe that she's just a normal person with an unusual point of view. (Then I listen to Jill Bolte Taylor's TED.com talk and suspect Katie simply had a tiny brain seizure somewhere in her left brain hemisphere.)

The turnarounds that seem most dangerous are things like "He raped me" => "I raped him." People can take all the guilt and rage and anger they directed towards a rapist and put it on themselves. Where I've seen this work, however, is when the person doing the turnaround could own a tiny piece of the experience. I don't know why, but as rationally illogical as it may seem, once they feel like they played a conscious part to even a tiny, tiny degree, that feeling of control seems to defuse a lot of the trauma associated with the original helpless-feeling belief.

What I don't know is how someone learns to do the turnarounds in the useful ways (exploration, self-discovery, belief change, obtaining control), or if there are ways to tell if someone will only have the negative reactions. I watched 20 or 30 Katie YouTube videos before trying The Work for myself, so maybe I'd seen enough other people make those distinctions that I discarded any turnarounds that I sensed might become vehicles for guilt or blame.

Regarding The School and BKI, I thought The School was a very, very powerful experience. The effects were also profoundly positive. The experience itself was designed to bring up my deep, painful "stuff" so I could do The Work on it. It did that. I did The Work and resolved some very serious issues that have been plaguing me for over 30 years.

At the time I thought I was a typical attendee. I am now less sure. I had been doing The Work for a year before taking The School. I was comfortable with it  and committed to taking anything negative at The School and using it for exploration. I also made an agreement with myself not to do any exercise I felt even slighly unready to do. I've never done anything so grueling or that produced such positive results. I have no desire whatsoever to do it again, as staff or attendee.

What I saw in others was not as consistent. Many people did not seem to know their own limits, or were unfamiliar with The Work when they arrived, and didn't know how to do it gently with themselves. The more I've read online, the more I have become convinced that (a) The Work is very powerful, and (b) The School curriculum needs more attention to helping people learn to apply it at their own pace, or sit out guilt-free if they're too overwhelmed. There were people there who, after nine days, still seemed more like they were giving answers they thought they should give than really going inside to find the answers they believed true.

Whether BKI is a cult concerned me. There are some people who credit Katie with using hypnotic techniques to brainwash people into giving them money and becoming dependent. I don't think so. The School does a few things that can be cult-like if taken out of context (long days, request for isolation), but since the agenda is surfacing your issues so you can work through them, those don't seem unreasonable. Plus, it's all voluntary. It really is. I know lots of people who went to The School and while we all felt it was intense, none of us felt like there was any compulsion. Ariane took responsibility for taking care of herself. I did, too, and felt no pressure at all to do anything I didn't want to.

As for Katie, I think she's a highly successful workshop leader, who only started making big bucks since her book came out, 17 years after her "awakening." She's a successful marketer with a media-friendly story, a honed stage presence, and a very unusual world view. Is she a spiritual "walk-in"? I don't think so (nor does she claim to be). Is she a cult leader, bent on separating people from their money? I don't think so. I have taken some internet marketing courses and she is lower key and less manipulative than a lot of people selling vitamins, gold jewelry for cash, and so on.

I do think she is a woman who stumbled onto an extraordinarily powerful technique that done right, somehow nullifies stressful thoughts. She has a powerful curriculum for surfacing that stress in others, and she may not be taking enough precautions to make sure that people in her larger and larger crowds aren't having adverse reactions.

To the person who doesn't think Byron Katie and her approach constitute a cult, I would like to ask:

a) Why would anyone involved in The Work question a thought like "Katie is an enlightened being"? The Work is about questioning stressful thoughts. How could the thought you cited be construed as stressful?

b) "Whether BKI is a cult concerned me." What about it caused such a concern? If you would care to elaborate.

I am asking you about this because I think it's fair to say no one ever sets out to join a cult. I suspect that the typical cult member who ends up leaving a group because they felt it was harming them spent a fair amount of time believing that the group they were involved in was great and not a cult. Isn't it possible that you are screening out anything that points to BKI as a cult because you have a strongly vested interest in not seeing it that way?

For a simple metaphorical example... say that you're suffering from your material situation, you're angry and frustrated that it seems so difficult to maintain a basic middle-class existence economically. You have a few choices:
 
1) Look into your own thinking, to see why your economic situation is causing you suffering. Maybe by changing your thinking, your situation as it is can become entirely acceptible.
 
2) Look into your own spending and earning habits. Perhaps by working harder or differently, taking on different risks, or changing your spending habits, you can attain the middle-class status you desire.
 
3) Blame the government, the economy, the Rich, Big Business, corporations, etc for causing your suffering.
 
People may say that the first two options are shaming or guilt-inducing etc. But I say the best thing is to try it out. See what the effect is of taking personal responsibility for your suffering. Then see what the effect is of blaming it on others. Then decide for yourself which way you like.
 
It's so much fun, so interesting, to criticize and blame others. Once you start doing it, it can go on and on. But when I suffer, and I blame myself for it... that's pretty boring and unpleasant. It pretty quickly leads to leaving blaming behind, in favor of actually doing something.
 
Debating "whether BKI is a cult" is akin to debating whether Moby Dick is a good book, or whether Kava is a good drug. Things aren't good or bad in themselves. It all swings on how you use them, particularly what desires and intentions you bring to the book, the drug, the religion, or the therapy.
 
Stuart
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/

To make a comparison between assessing a book or herb with something like a cult that can quite destructive on many levels is ridciulous. Are ya kidding?

Some of my biggest insights have come from using The Work on non-stressful thoughts. Questioning "people have my best interests at heart" led me to a deeper understanding that people aren't black-and-white. I questioned it when I realized not everyone believes that. My motive was pure curiosity to find out where the questioning would lead.

In any event, my claim wasn't that anyone would question "Katie is an enlightened being," (though I questioned it and would highly recommend anyone in The Work also question it). That sentence was an example of using the turnaround to help get through confirmation bias.

b) "Whether BKI is a cult concerned me." What about it caused such a concern? If you would care to elaborate.... I am asking you about this because I think it's fair to say no one ever sets out to join a cult..Isn't it possible that you are screening out anything that points to BKI as a cult because you have a strongly vested interest in not seeing it that way?

I was concerned at the request for nine days without outside contact, eating a special diet, with long days. I was concerned at how many people seem to believe Katie is a spiritual being (though she said repeatedly during our School that she wasn't). I was also concerned because I am well-aware that no one thinks they're getting into a cult until it's too late. Cults scare me. A friend of mine in college went to Scientology's off-shore headquarters, gave them all his money, and never came back to school.


Before agreeing to the nine-day silence, I called friends who were not Katie fans but knew people who had attended The School. I asked my friends about their friends' behavior (do they buy more-than-normal-interest amounts of Katie products? Do they feel the need to attend every workshop? Do they try to "enroll" you and don't take "No" for an answer? Have you noticed any changes in them since they attended The School? Has their home life changed? Work life? Social life? For the better or worse?)  Only after I considered the answers did I decide to participate in the no-communication rule.

I am well-aware of the danger of being pulled into a cult without being aware of it. That is why I keep reading about Katie and am consciously collecting disconfirming data--to see if I'm fooling myself. I verify facts when I can. When names are mentioned in connection with Katie with claims that I think could be verified by a phone call, I sometimes call them and do my best to fact-check. 



I also consider the logic of the arguments on both sides. Both pro-Katie and the anti-Katie sides confuse correlation and causality all the time. They also jump to conclusions from one or two data points (selected by their confirmation bias to be pro- or anti- Katie). For example, just because a cult has long days and special terminology does not mean that The School is automatically a cult. My chemistry lab class in college also had long days and special terminology. That does not make it a cult. And just because I have benefitted from The Work does not mean that it works for everybody or even anybody else.

As for my having a "strongly-vested interest in not seeing it that way," I'm not aware of any such interest. I do not attend Katie workshops. I have no connection to her or her organization. I use The Work personally. I don't try to persuade people to take her workshops. I am actively trying to find out when The Work doesn't work, and make sure I know when to steer people clear of it, as well as when it might be a good solution for them.



"I have benefitted from The Work" is also a belief I have collected data on. I have asked my friends and family to tell me if they have noticed any changes since I did The School, what those changes are, and whether they think it has been healthy. I asked the question mainly to find out if others thought I was being drawn into a cult, but they also gave me data on other changes in my behavior.

Speaking in TheWorkobabble, or ( Workletegook, whichever you prefer):  I love it that there's some interest and debate on this subject again in this forum.  I think the comments here are reasoned, interesting, and thought-provoking.  And you've set me up perfectly for the last of the posts I'd planned on.  I  emphasize that these are my personal experiences and thoughts.  I'm interested in hearing when people have had different ones and similar ones.  One thing about The School as I experienced it, is there were just not enough opportunities to find out how things were for others there.  There was a group, humorously dubbed by one charming participant as The Bad Byron Katie People, who met in an out-of-the-way spot to smoke, drink coffee, and talk.  I kept meaning to drop in there and hear from them, but it didn't work out. 

On Katie's Behavior:  From hearing from others who'd attended live programs and from watching Katie's videos, I'd expected she would have people sitting on stage with her from time-to-time, giving out that warm personal attention, doing The Work 1x1.  Instead, there was only one chair onstage.  People did the work almost exclusively with other participants.  Interaction with Katie took place typically when she asked if anyone wanted to share their experience with an exercise.  A staff member with a microphone would run to that person and the speaker would share.  Katie might or might not comment or interact in that moment with the speaker.  If anyone wanted Katie to address a particular concern of theirs, they had a note given to Katie by staff and she would usually, later, ask that person to stand and speak from where they sat.  There just wasn't the warm and cuddly thing with Katie going on.  In fact, she often did not seem warm at all.  I was surprised at often she seemed irritated or short or sharp...and then would come a couple of those famous Workletegook's: "...and I love it that you blah, blah, blah."  The messages were often very mixed and, judging from expressions and responses back from the speakers, often very confusing.  I am not the sort of person who wants the microphone, so I'm not a neutral judge of this, but I had NO desire whatsoever to take that mike and speak.  And people who hadn't spoken were under some pressure to do so...others noticed or staff noticed and asked why.  I would have liked it if the atmosphere had been conducive enough for me to want to speak.

Given all the Suggested Don'ts (don't look in a mirror more than once a day, don't wear jewelry or makeup, don't think about your appearance, etc.), most folks looked pretty crummy by Day 3.  Katie, however, looked radiant, rested, made up, perfectly coiffed, beautifully dressed at all times.  She sat alone on stage beside beautiful flowers, flanked by two large screens that duplicated her image up close...that beautiful facelift...who was her plastic surgeon, honey?  She was lit from above in such a way as to make her white hair glow with almost a halo effect.  She may have said we were her family, but it was pretty clear we weren't like her.  Yes, she was there most of the time when we were in the room, but she didn't take the mindfulness walks with us or eat with us.  Even staff did not eat with us; they had their own separate dining room.  And Katie did not come down into the room much...just not a lot of co-mingling.  I recall two instances in the nine days when Katie left the stage and entered the participants' space.  She did not sign books when the Store was set up.  I was in her presence but not with her, really. 

This was surprising and disappointing.  I have noticed, however, that there don't seem to be many Messengers in history who have managed to embody their Message successfully across time.  The martyred ones have fared best in maintaining their images in the public consciousness.  Katie's message is not new.  I like the way she's popularized it for Western minds, but she's not my guru.  The wisdom messages carry their truths regardless of the squalor in the lives of the messengers.  Again, I needed to see for myself.  For all the lighting and the flowers, Katie is just like the rest of us in her humanity and the way her stories keep running away with her, the way her School is running away with her, the way her celebrity is running away with her.  She seems more shaman than guru, now.  That's how it seems to me and so be it.

My task now is to return to the many messengers whose work helps me.  And to let go of my disappointment.  Writing here has helped. 

To make a comparison between assessing a book or herb with something like a cult that can quite destructive on many levels is ridciulous. Are ya kidding?

-gimmeshelter

Hi, gimmeshelter. What you say here is what I believe is generally called "argument by assertion." I used a metaphor that compared our judgements about a book or an herb, to the judgements we make about therapies or religions. You assert that it's riduculous, and you offer absolutely zero in the way of supporting your assertion with evidence or logic. It's as if the mere fact that you assert that it's ridiculous should carry some weight... in the absence of the tiniest shred of reasoned argument.
 
Argument by assertion is a key factor in cult mind-sets. It's vital to somehow avoid clear, reasoned, critical thinking in order to maintain such a mind-set. Demonizing and ridiculing others, WITHOUT any reasoned support, is one way the cultish mind protects its dogmas.

(By the way, if you're suggesting that a book or an herb can never be "destructive," that the way you use the ideas in a book or the effects of an herb can't have dire consequences... that's also an assertion that I'd question profoundly.)

Stuart
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/