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#21 [url]

Jan 31 10 9:48 AM

OMG. Prem Baba is one of the most fake self-called enlightened "gurus"! His name is Janderson Fernandes. Therapist from Monday to Friday, and enlightened guru from Friday afternoon to Sunday night. He became a "guru" by making all his patients his devotees. Only in the recent years he's gone out to spread his "light". He is especially interested in getting US followers. After a period of time in therapy with him, he suggests his patients they need to take ayahusca to heal or move to the next level. Slowly, they become dead-brain. He "initiates" only a selected few to make them feel special and indebted to him. His group is very hierarchical, creating big time competition between all the groups. Great manipulator. His devotees are total fanatics. IT IS A CULT. He makes them give him big donations. He has a beautiful ashram that actually belonged to one of his devotees, who ended up giving him the whole property, and she is now the "care taker" of the place. He names people like Ravishankar as people who have confirmed his enlightenment. First of all, Ravishankar is another fraud. Second of all, why does he go after confirmations of big names to make his enlightenment credible? He then sells a picture - the only one he has - he took with the Dalai Lama when he went to one of his talks. His devotees sell it as if it was such a token: if Prem met the Dalai he is so enlightened. Does that mean then Richard Gere is too? He divorced his wife (has a kid) because she still "still has desires". In recent years he added Vedic teachings to ayahusca (he was a priest of the Santo Dayme group). After 8 hs of drinking that stuff, chanting, dancing and hallucinating, anyone believes anything he says and believe he has "powers" (he does not read any English and there is not a lot of literature in Portuguese on Vedic stuff, everything he knows is borrowed materials he grabs here and there). He has very intelligent, capable, nice devotees, who become brain dead, only thinking and working for him. They call him "Prem", they consider him "their father, their god". I have met the most beautiful people become drones. They are not allowed even to interact with people outside their movement, unless they bring the other into the group. Janderson takes a course and immediately teaches it to his group by saying it is some divine message he received. ie. Vipasana - a whole week of silence, vipasana meditation (of which he has no official training), fasting, and drinking ayahuasca at night - 6 days of this. If you don't get fried, you are strong! He is making tons of money yet note that it is a rule that, according to the laws of the amazon, the santo dayme, no money should be made from it otherwise the plant will play against you. He wants to be big. He wants to take the seat of the guru he visits every year in India. He wants to go worldwide and has added a Sri to his name: Sri Prem Baba. But, just call him "Jan". Another sociopath suffering of big time egomania. He is making tons of money, does not pay taxes, takes the money from his devotees, make them give a lot every month, and pay for consumption of the plant, and the use of the ashram, his therapy costs a lot of money, and his devotees take care of any taxes that belong to him. His devotees will fight to death for him. This is the kind of cult I would not be surprised and I would be afraid that he will make them all "go with him" to the after life. Dangerous charismatic fraud. PS: the women who are with him, one of them at least, is divorced, her husband is another follower, all worked out by him: the divorce, etc. - they are not that normal people, believe me. They look normal. They are not.

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#22 [url]

Feb 1 10 7:26 PM

Hi hummingbird, if you are doing practices, courses etc. to transform your self, to attain enlightenment, you are preparing for the future event of enlightenment. If enlightenment is something that can be gained then it can also be lost, so it could not be the truth,"that which never changes".  Apply this test to the situation. How many disciples of sri prem have realised through his guidance and are now sitting in the satsang as equals with him? How many are now sitting both physically and spiritually with him as equals? He might be a very charismatic person and he may have some very interesting concepts to teach but can he put you beyond the further need for his or any other teachers help?  Is there evidence that that is happening? Are devotees saying to him on a regular basis after a reasonably short period of guidance from him," Thank you for your guidance, I no longer need your help, I no longer need any of your practices, I am now going back to my life free". Or is the organisation gathering more and more unfulfilled seekers that are still waiting for their future enlightenment through his grace? Tazzy.

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#23 [url]

Feb 2 10 2:07 PM

Thank you Sam for your "fresh" outlook. To me all outlooks are welcome. Let us expose every angel, good and bad.

Behalfacre - Are you an enlightened person? I guess you can only answer "yes" to that question, and in a way you are right. We are perfect diamonds more or less covered in mud are we not. We practice spirituality to remove the layers of mud. Then in 10 years or 10 incarnations we can look back and say "I was already perfect, there was no need for all the spiritual practice". 
Do you have a practice or are you beyond those things - are you just resting in your enlightenment?

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#24 [url]

Feb 3 10 5:23 PM

   HI Hummer.    
    When seeking stops practices fall away or don't.
   There are no enlightened persons or individuals. No person has ever become enlightened. As I said last post if YOU can become enlightened YOU can also lose it. So called "enlightenment" is pre-existing, prior to the arising of the idea of you, enlightenment is. What were you before you were born? If enlightenment is one without a second then there can be no YOU that "rests" in enlightenment as there would still be two. YOU and your ENLIGHTENMENT. 
   The notion of an enlightened person will be one of the first concepts that a good teacher will help to dispel. Most teachers still believe in the idea of enlightenment for individuals and so help to sustain  the idea amongst their students and therefore seeking continues. It may not be that they are deliberately misleading them, they simply may not know. Or they may have had some incredible experience and really believe that they have "become " enlightened. Either way it is a false notion.
      I am not against all teachers or so called paths. I just know after forty years of seeking that some teachers are a lot better than others. No need to give up your relationship with Prem right away, presuming you still have one, but in the meantime find a low key nondual teacher that has a very small number of students and who can give you his/her time one on one. There should be very low fees and no organisation to join or practices to do.
    Take a look at my post here under "seeking all your ideas", 27th. Dec. "09 for my experience with such a teacher. Tazzy.

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#25 [url]

Jan 30 11 3:01 AM

Father! Forgive them, for it is clear that they know not what they do or speak. I ask for mercy towards these people, whose heart is this filled up with fear, hatred and envy.

Have pity, oh universal mother! Please, remove the veil of ignorance from these ones, who waste their time in this game of destruction and accusations. Forgive the one who attacks, and forgive the ones who waste their time listening to this nonsense.

May evil be illuminated. May these people who are imprisoned in the claws of evil be able to see the pain which they carry inside, a pain which sustains the vicious circle of sado-masochism. Illuminate the darkness of ignorance. May they once again unite themselves unto Thee, and in this way, feel themselves safe and self-confident enough no longer to have to waste their precious time speaking lies regarding those whom they don't even know.

Have mercy! Om asatoma sat gamaya, tamasoma jyotir gamaya, brityorma ambritam gamaya.

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#26 [url]

Apr 8 11 4:54 AM

I saw Prem Baba in March 2011 and I can't imagine he's the "real deal". Ok, I admitt I didn't open myself to him because I was too allerted by the way his devotees walked into the ashram.
The devotional music they use to prepare and open you is beautiful and efficient... all concentrated on his picture...once preparation has proceeded, he walks in an starts focussing everyone individually... while music is still going on. I dind't percieve him as loving, gentle or even in peace with himself... not even as  positive person, but someone who loved to be in that role... but thats very subjective. When he focused me I had a very big tension and problems staying with myself. I don't know what he does, I believe he has some technique to put his energy into you as soon as you open up... but he dind't respect my not opening up to him. If my perception was correct, thats energetic rape. All still no hardcore evidence and I have no experience with this sort of stuff ...just freaked me out a bit.
After music changing from devotional to joy (and I think this is really cheap manipulation, I wonder why a serious teacher would do this. Does he want you to learn, to be, to love? Why does he have to bribe you with joy? aren't his teachings enough for that?) he starts talking... and he said several things, starting with: This is one of the places of enlightment in the universe... to you are here because I called you and some more crap about how special he and the people present were... why does he have to feed that stuff?? I'll think of tht myself ;) Then he talked about all sorts of topics I can't remember anymore.. all I do remember is my repeated disappointment. He outlines an interesting topic where I think: wow, hes talking about that, I wonder how this dude is gone go into this or that aspect but changes the topic earlier...he didn't say one thing you could argue about, nothing someone could get to question himself seriously, always staying in the security of vagueness... . When he went on to say that "there is no need to do anything, everything necesary for spiritual development is being done for you here" I had enough. I couldn't stand the atmosphere in there and had to leave early.
It all makes sense if you believe that he is as holy as he says. It just by far doesn't work out with what I saw, heard an felt in there... I believe he is a bad person. Someone telling you to go right back to sleep, because everything is fine... no need to put energy into that desire.

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#27 [url]

Apr 9 11 8:35 AM

Dear eh...Idiot,  I was there at the same lecture in March. Every day one or two people left early. Unlike you I felt love emitting from Prem Baba. At the end of the satsang we often walked by him, in front of him. And close to him and after passing him I would feel a special spiritual vibration around him and in my heart.

Like I said before, PB is well known and respected by everyone in Rishikesh, Priests, shop keepers, sadhus etc.

One day my acquaintance said she saw a limitation in him, but she did not elaborate. She had also talked to another person who saw PB being rude to a younger woman in public in Rishikesh a year or two back, his secretary or assistant.  I saw another respected master there shouting at people, but not PB. I don't know the details or if it at all happened, but sometimes you must put the foot down, even if you are a "saint". No big deal.

Another poster up this tread asked a long time ago: how many of his disciples are/have become enlightened?  Well I guess none so far, but this ashram (Sacha Dam Ashram) is like a power center. I think there are 6 living enlightened people coming out of that ashram/lineage, so they must do something right.
If PB is a fake, why does not his own guru who lives in the next room say something (unless he and the other 4 are also fakes).

Both PB and his Guru says they give love unconditionally in equal measure to everyone, and I also feel it pouring forth in both of them.

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#28 [url]

Apr 13 11 9:45 AM

I felt love emitting from Prem Baba. At the end of the satsang we often walked by him, in front of him. And close to him and after passing him I would feel a special spiritual vibration around him and in my heart.


Maybe those special feelings had to do with how you were keeping your own mind. How would you know that your nice feelings were emitting from Prem Baba? The feelings you get are generally connected to the type of thinking (beliefs, expectations, desires, etc) that you cultivate... much much moreso than the external situation, or other people, who happens to be in your physical proximity.

I think there are 6 living enlightened people coming out of that ashram/lineage, so they must do something right.


Anyone can claim to be enlightened. Anyone with a little audacity and gift of gab can convince other people to call him enlightened. So why does it mean a thing? Personally, if I went to a meditation group and found it filled with people who held ideas about "this person is enlightened and that person isn't," I'd wonder what the point is. Why make "enlightened" and "unenlightened"? What good does that do for anyone?

If PB is a fake, why does not his own guru who lives in the next room say something (unless he and the other 4 are also fakes).


This thread started out with someone calling Prem "the real deal." What does that mean?? Since "real deal" doesn't mean anything, "fake" doesn't mean anything either. Real WHAT? Fake WHAT?


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#29 [url]

Jun 13 11 6:38 AM

Well am a bit late but maybe youll read it anyway mmm :)
fake means he isn't what he claims to be... and he claims to be something super human, someone loving everyone always. something I believe is as wrong as it gets... Jesus didn't teach or live that according to the gospels. al ghazali (alchemy of happiness) argues that love in god comes from this beeing living god's plan... doing all he can to fullfill it. But if that is the reason for love in god there must also be hate in god. This is also the way I understand the bible. So this randm love everyone no matter what is crap... get conected to yourself and your true emotions!! Live yourself and SEE what you do. Then you might discover real love coming from your own heart instead of from this fake emotional center that your ideals created trying to love everyone all the time. So I don't have a problem in generall with a teacher shouting or beating someone publicly... might have a reason. But this dude teaches something different so it doesnt work out at all.
My teacher repeats again and again that there are different stages of openness and understanding ("enlightment").. that you might get a spark from somewhere in an open moment and that boosts you to some stage but nothing is permament and that impact won't create anything permanent by itself. But if you feel special because you are "someone" because of some experience.. then you are halfway fucked allready (check out shanti mai in the same ashram... feels special about some shamanic unity feeling but is soo busy with herself and her thankfullness). Running after these experiences and excitements is not spiritual, its problably a dead end road... and people that claim to be successfull on it... well I haven't seen one thast I would believe to be what he thinks he is.
I agree with randomstu... check out your emotions and hopes when you feel sensations. My teacher says normally 90% is imagination... depending on you creative capacity ;) I believe he is right on that... so it's just about finding out the true 10% and distinquishing whats really behind them and checking out were the other 90% come from :) Then ofcourse people in rishikesh have this enormous capacity in feeling something (ok, I admit I'm not very fond of the place)... but things could have come from other peoples wishes walking with there guru... What ever... find your true emotions and live them.. stop trying to be some loving fag that you aren't! Only if you accept yourself, forgive yourself, love yourself then you can see yourself and show yourself to others... and then there can be real love from heart to heart. I'm stoping to believe in that easy shortcut these guys are trying to sell...

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#30 [url]

Jul 26 11 6:45 AM

I have visited Prem Baba's Ashram in India and have been to 2 of this setsangs in Brazil. We wife followed him for almost 2 years. I believe there is a way of being enlightened by following him just as there is following anyone else. In the book Pirkei avot there is a saying that 'Who is wise? The one who learns from every person…Who is brave? The one who subdues his negative inclination… Who is rich? The one who is appreciates what he has…  (Avot 4:1)".
I personally heard PB saying that 'The body and soul of the disciples belong to the guru'. He initially states that there are no requirements for following him, but later he also indicated that it requires courage to follow a guru. He mentioned in two different setsangs that if one wants to live a regular life and take the blue pill it's ok, but if one wants to learn the truth and take the red pill thats also a choice - his path. He was clearly making reference to the Matrix movie.
In his case the red pill was also a reference for the Santo Daime or Ayahuasca - a hallucinogenic drug that makes people believe that they had 'intense spiritual' experiences.
My personal take is that if I need a drug to intensely relate to the supreme being I am probably just faking an experience - or someone is trying to trick me into feeling or believing  something.
PB's book is entitled 'meeting the truth' - this shows how confident he is that he owns the truth.
After almost two years of ayahuasca usage my wife developed a burnout syndrome. The burnout syndrome is commonly associated with hallucinogenous drugs. I cant state that the Ayahuasca caused it. But the doctors said it was the probable cause.
Nearly all the PB followers are Ayahuasca users and that also made me feel that he was using the drug to inscrease the number of his followers.
I was also surprised to see how he expects to be adored by his followers. At the end of the setsangs all of his followers line up to kiss his feet. Images of him are sold in all sizes and for all purposes.
He boasted that he comes from an old lineage of Indian gurus being declared enlightened by a guru called Sri Hans Raj Maharaj ji who has practically no followers and nothing substantial (other than his web page) in writing -
Unfortunately, almost all of the web pages on Ayahuasca are on how great it is as the wonders it will do for you.
Today, my wife is astonished (and somewhat embarassed) on how could she have believed on Janderson.
Hope this helped.

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#31 [url]

Sep 6 11 9:03 PM

I agree, awareness is not you being aware, because if it is, it can mean that you can also not be aware, but there is awareness of you being whatever,  the ramblings of the SELF, the voices that respond to themselves, remembering what was, projecting what might be, well if you dont feed it, it withers and quietens down, so in a sense this YOU  not doing anything about YOU requires an action of YOU, as YOU must do something, its just this something is not doing a damn thing with respect to this entity(s) called you, and it will rant and rave, as it usually demands occupation and it will likely tell you all sorts of things, that you are in control, or your thoughts are creating reality, like that EDJI dude implied, or what someother moron implied, dont feed the stuff and it withers and dies, and what is left is awareness, 24/7, whether you like it or not, IMO of course, Then from the awareness side of things, the thing that is seen, if not manipulated, and by now you've definitely got out of the habit of doing anything with respect to this thing called you, well something stops, but yet remains, and you will see/be the dream like aspect of this thing we call reality, that doesn't stop the dream, but knowing what is what, blows this thing apart.

Written by just another moron on the net, who went by the name of BABU.

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