ytseekmystic's Blog

Re: Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation

In a weekly Tamil magazine, JV is writing a series of article on 'Spirituality'. In the latest issue, he mentions the meaning of the word 'Pasu' in the name "Pasu Pathi", one of the names of Lord Shiva, as 'Life', whereas, the word refers to all living creatures in the world.
 
This is one more example of JV's incompleteness and confidence that thousands of his 'obedient' followers would not question him. He can write/talk whatever he wants! If anyone questions him, he/she will be brushed off as 'Egoistic' or not being open to truth.
 
This aside, in one his recent interviews, he says I don't have desire, I am 'Greedy' to realize god. How can one person who has not realized himself can go out to the world and claim he is enlightened. This is just ridiculous. If anyone questions him, the answer will be "Why are you bothered about his wisdom, bother about yours!"

Re: Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation

Ellen ... "I was referring to Mahesh Yogi of T.M. who pioneered the greedy guru business model in the west."
 
Hi... Even I have great regard for Ramana Maharishi. He is one of the few genuine spiritual teachers I know. Even if one is not impressed with the way he taught...the fact is that he never exploited his followers for money or fame. He led a very very simple life.

 Do you think that washing with Isha soap will help anyone's spiritual life? : )
 
May be for those who haven't realized the potential of the Guru.
I found this website just now... http://www.ishashoppe.com/

Re: Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation

Happyd... In one of your earlier posts, you said, "I've been collecting devotee experiences and testimonials from many different groups. Mostly to understand the group dynamics that hold people in the sway of the master, as well as understand my own experiences. Interesting, there really is nothing new or different with how these leaders control thier followers and how the followers justify their bondage to the master. I will be posting a few examples on here."  

Re: Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation

Elen..."Mr Jaggi's starting point was just this, deciding he wanted to be a mystical guru with millions of devoted followers catering to his every whim. He used his previous business acumen (and canny knowledge of human nature, innate needs and desires) to fashion a workable business model--probably studying the Maharishi and Rajneesh examples..."

Great observation, Elen. Hats off!!! Maharishi refers to Mahesh Yogi or Ramana Maharishi?

Elen... "I seriously doubt he has any interest or care in the minds or spiritual welfare of his followers."

He doesn't care about his own spiritual welfare, leave alone his followers'.

There is a new small juice shop opened in my area. I went there last week and there was a display of 'Hand made soaps' from Isha for sale!!!

Re: Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation

Happd... have you ever come across this book : Lives in the shadow with J.Krishnamurti

Re: Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation

(Assuming it happened) If an Enlightened person spends 4 hours just to select a tie bothering about how he will look in front of others, a sane person MUST just walk away from him.

JV once told in an interview, if you carry the religious tag, people look down upon you. What kind of enlightenment is this... dressing your body/mind in a way that will attract a group!!

In ISHA's website, it is mentioned that it is a non-religious organization and the main deity there is Dhyana Linga. First of all, a person should have some honesty in life (JV told this in a discourse)... ISHA should first understand this.

Re: Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation

"There was an young girl who was very closely following JK. Once, JK wanted to buy a Tie for himself..."

Vaidy...In which book did you find this info?

Re: Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation

That's the point...

ISHAites will criticize any faith on the earth… but they can’t take back anything.

In Indian tradition, Guru is placed before GOD… because he is the one who showers unconditional love on the disciple and also takes responsibility for his spiritual growth… I am talking about the REAL enlightened masters. JV says if does not work for you … you can leave. Why there is such a clause if ISHA is the BEST (as JV and ISHAites claim), super JET speed way for enlightenment?

Vaidy... what are you coming to say? Be at ISHA... don't bother about anything, that is, don't bother about people around you, don't bother whether JV is enlightened or not, don't bother whether JV ridicules you, don't bother if you have any experiences (you can't believe your mind, as per JV), don't bother about people who faint because they can't withstand the overflowing energy from JV? don't bother about the WEALTHY inner circle? don't bother about JV's Land Rover, Harley Davidson, and the palace he has built for himself at ISHA?

Re: Golden boy bites Vivekananda and Yogananda to get famous

Vaidy ... Why should a person go and sit and feel the guru's presence and feel connected? If he is "REALLY" enlightened ... he is omnipresent … there is no need to sit in front of his physical form.

As such, a close observation will easily reveal what they are up to really! More than feeling a Guru's presence... a person has to feel his EXISTENCE

Re: Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation

Happyd ...

So...does he have the power or is the power given to him? And if you don't see his power...its your fault... or you have an ego...or a wall... or you can't surrender.... or just pick your own excuse.

This is the punch line... it explains everything!

Re: Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation

Ellen ... You say Mind is just a word. Again you say "If you really want to know your mind....". What is there to understand which does not exist. Mind has no existence... it's just collection of thoughts. Soul has existence. That’s what is to be understood … not the mind.

Unless a person studies himself … no guru can help. That too gurus like JV… no way!

If you really want to know your mind, treat it with respect, like a friend and choose friendlier metaphors. Like a good friend, it will repay your trust and care.

That’s what is taught at places like ISHA… it will just make you feel good.

Re: Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation

Happyd... During those 3 years at Isha, have you ever interacted directly with JV? If yes, what was it about?

Re: Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation

I guess the last line should be ...

Y will always win the argument, will win the most toys and achieve the highest bliss. Everyone else is X, Z, or Q. Isn't it?

Re: Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation

Happyd... your algebra equation is wonderful!

My understanding is, for enlightenment you got to erase your ego and leave the "I" behind. The door to TRUTH is within yourself and to know this the mind should turn inwards; for this the EGO should disappear. Following self inquiry (Who am I?), as taught by Ramana Maharishi, is the ideal way, in my view. Forget about GOD for a while, you are here in this world, just realize that (not just thinking). While sleeping, you were there, but your body was not. Another example would be in a pitch dark place you can't see your own body, but still you feel your presence. All that I would say is expand your thinking beyond your body. Many of your doubts will vanish.

I 100% agree with you that JV is not a realized master. All his teachings are based on what is written in Hindu scriptures. It's just descriptive knowledge. People who are not aware of all those things are awed by his so-called discourses, which are just Copy/Paste content from ancient hindu scriptures. Many of his conclusive statements (Sayings?) can be very easily refuted.

Re: Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation

Hi

To my understanding, a person has to know his existence for which the mind should turn inside... that's all is needed for enlightenment. In the process, all the silly doubts of the egoistic mind will be dispelled.

 All the practices (devotion or yoga) are meant for that.

The enlightenment is the only way to know the truth.If you realize yourself that's the best social service you can render to the world. True quest for knowledge and sincere yearning for god are the key to enlightenment.

If you believe ISHA is the way for you, I pray: "May the supreme soul embrace you"

Re: Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation

Millions of Indians know about Janaka before you learnt about the saint-king from Nithyananda. It is your liberty to take JV as Buddha and please understand there are millions who just consider him as a Yoga businessman/social worker. Re dumb guru … you mean to say you don’t bother about gurus … just go and fall at their feet. It’s just irrational / insensible / illogical. I could very well understand how much you are obsessed with JV/Isha and trying your best to defend whatever they do, even if there is contradiction. Fyi … JV keeps insisting on science and logic but at a later stage of the program you are asked not to question anything just accept it. What a logic?   
You say that BKS/other yoga programs cannot take you far only ISHA can take you in a flight (this is business, this is marketing, this is brand promotion). Why don’t you just leave people have their beliefs and follow their own path. As you and JV claim ISHA is not the only way (or not the way at all). BKS and others did not want to do business that’s why they didn’t claim they are enlightened. Also, they are very much aware that no enlightened person will ever claim that “I am Enlightened”. The way JV behaves and talks does not show any sign of enlightenment. Once I have heard him say that this is my body. How can you ever stamp a person as enlightened whose thoughts have not gone beyond his body? Have you ever been into the bungalow ‘The Enlightened Person’ has built for himself at ISHA, .
 
Re… starting the organization. Yes, that’s the way you have to do a business. Re new temple… that’s innovation. You have to keep innovating and bring in new things to bring in more people. Without innovation survival in the business will become difficult.
 
Fyi… the buss buss sound comment is from Nithyananda (you call himself also sadguru?)… he is called paramahamsa. Isn’t it? Let that be… is it the way you insult the people who have come close to you with such immense faith? There is another thread on Swami Nithyananda. http://guruphiliac.lefora.com/2008/11/17/nithyananda-rapes-holy-mountain/page1/ (ISHA's BSP vs Nithyananda's NSP)
 
JV and people who do marketing for ISHA do believe that ISHA is the only way and the people who go there are brainwashed to look down upon other faiths. Just go through all the comments you posted … you don’t approve BKS and other yoga teachers, you don’t approve temples built by others fyi… there are countless jeeva samadhis of gnanis and REAL sadgurus across India and people visit those places even today and find solutions to their materialistic and spiritual problems as well. If it doesn’t work for you… pay the money and leave. Could you please reply to Wesslea?
 
As far as I know, it is up to sadahaka to decide upon the path (or a concoction of techniques) to follow. Guru just guides him. Without faith there is no experience. It’s just a common sense. JV says vice versa. It’s something like saying you can eat your food without opening the mouth here. All these are attempts to bring in people and give them a new/fresh sensation. You go to a calm holiday resort and do breathing exercises properly. You will feel the same. 
 
 You are referring to Ramakrsiha Paramahamsa. Not only Kali, there are lots of temples built by devotees, rishis, and kings that are properly consecrated as per Agama Vithi. Those are not properly built, because JV says so!!! Millions of people visit those places even today. Of course, there are temples that are built just for money (like JV’s Isha). So, please stop saying all those people who built/worship the deities there are mediocre and only JV’s place is great. It sounds so silly and awkward. So what? There are still followers of Ramanauja and Adhi shankara… it’s just different school of thoughts. What is there in it? Many people know this fact.
The comment on Adam/Eve is irresponsible and was made to get more media attention.
 
Swami Vivekananda has told “If you don’t have faith in yourself and you run behind hundreds of gurus and gods there is no point. It’s just meaningless.” So, even if you don’t have faith… no problem… come and pay us money we will give you spiritual experience. The ISHA business way!   
 
No sorry. I don’t want to come to a Yoga business man. I don’t even want to give it a chance in my life. If I am going to lose something because of this, I would like to be a proud loser.
 
Re your opinion about ISHA and benefits… you have all the rights to recommend it to people. Nobody can stop you. But understand there are lots of people whose opinions are otherwise.
 
I know many instances when ISHA programs were conducted at Schools/colleges in Chennnai. May be in they conduct it at marriage halls. Could you please shed light on Isha Vidhya and . Which one takes fees in lakhs and which one is for rural children?

Who is JV to say that the deities at many temples are not consecrated properly. He should be about 60-65 years old. He got enlightenment (as he claims) when he was sitting at Velliangiri forest (may be while catching cobras). And he questions the credibility of those places. JV, as a businessman, has no quality to do it. Because, he just cannot accept/respect faith/beliefs of others. If his opinion about other places is this, then please accept the views about ISHA from others. Now, you know who is creating clash between faiths!

Re: Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation

The "ENLIGHTENED MASTER" is emotionally shaken by the number of people following him. He would not give up his luxury at all. Now, he slowly moved the focus towards social service, growing trees, running schools etc. If anybody questions his authenticity re wisdom... he has the "Social Service" shield now. No enlightened person will ever claim that he is enlightened. But everybody should accept JV is a clever business man. Check out his site now... there is a link for Isha Business Private Ltd.

With all due respect to you, all I can say is go and sit in the basic ISHA yoga course and then decide for yourself. Yes, it was Sadhguru who emphasized that the tag business be added to the venture because it was "business". Please don't judge him without experiencing his presence. All I can say is go and try his course and then comment based on your experience.

Whenever Isha is criticized, the first statement that comes from people obsessed with “ISHA” is go and attend ... go and take up the Yoga course. Pathanjali’s (Father of Yoga) yoga techniques are taught at Isha. Yoga, as such, if practiced will have an effect on body/mind, i.e., it prepares you for self realization. After that realization, you will care a damn about the material things. JV does not seem to be an “Andharmukhi” and he is very much influenced by “Rajo” guna.

Also, the first thing (as far as I know) taught at Isha is promise on JV’s photograph that the secrecy will be maintained and all other spiritual things learned so far (may be, according to ISHA, spiritual garbage) must be erased from the mind. Why should that be? As if all the lineages of spiritual gurus who led a very modest, simple, honest life mean nothing?? And here is JV – your saviour? Is this the organization’s attitude? Is it a cult?

And I have listened to many of his discourses on youtube. Many of those are in similar lines of Osho’s and ridicule beliefs of others. And I have learnt from one of the participant of the program at that there is a separate cottage given to people who can afford and others stay at dormitory kind of setup. Why is such a difference shown at Isha?

I know a few places that teach yoga and self-realization courses where no matter a person can afford or not everyone is treated equally. JV is a social worker, a very clever business person and enjoys all the comforts of life under the cover of Yoga. Going by his teaching, he knows what he wants from life and he knows his full potential. It’s as simple as that!

Hi,
Once again I don't want to argue with you. But as far as I could understand, the only way you can comprehend anything in spiritual world is thro' your own experience. So, don't try to judge someone like sadhguru from what you perceive from here. Go and sit in his presence and then write about him.

I don't remember making any promise on sadhguru's photograph. Of course, they do say that we shouldn't teach this to others not because it is secret but because teaching yoga requires a lot of dedication, skill and more importantly a certain level of self realisation. A teacher in ISHA undergoes a rigorous 3-5 years training! OK, I leave it to you on your judgement of sadhguru.. I don't have anything to say on that..

As far as spiritual garbage is concerned, they emphasize more on experience than on knowledge. I have also found that sometimes knowledge (usually wrong understanding) about spiritual matters hinders our growth.

Yes, sadhguru is a realized master. So, he knows his full potential. Once again, I don't have anything to say on your judgement of sadhguru. All i can say is "Don't judge an enlightened being thro' your logical mind. They are beyond that". Do you know that he travels around the world without a single paisa in his hand?

Whoever is associated with Isha go very anxious whenever someone criticizes Isha and you seem to be bit different. As such, once you are in public life you cannot escape criticism.

Re promise on JV’s photograph … I came to know about this from 2 persons who attended the program. Do you mean to say whoever teaches Yoga there are self realized souls (certain level)? What’s that level? Realization is either zero or 100%. Thanks for leaving it to the people who have judged him perfectly.

My question is what does ISHA say? All those lineages of realized gurus who have been insisting on practicing dharma, propagating worship of god and leading a pious life are fools? How can you say it’s wrong understanding? It’s just a biased statement because your mind is so obsessed with Isha. I think JV also said once going to temples and worshipping is a kind of hallucination. What an arrogant way of ridiculing faith of millions of people. Re knowledge and experience… even JV insists on experience and sometimes on knowledge…depending on the persons who he speaks to, i.e. depending on his mood. I have noticed that in few of his interviews, his answers are intended to satisfy the interviewer. 

Sadhguru is not a realized master. He is a social worker. You talking about logical mind…this is really strange… all JV talks are premised on scientific and logical thinking…you say don’t use your logical mind??? He travels without a single paisa? What’s great about it? He has his business centers all over the world and he has his ardent followers to support him. I don’t think it’s something great to appreciate. Simplicity is beyond JV’s reach. ISHA is a cult. 

OK, if that is so why don't you go and sit in his presence. Why don't you blog us your true experience after that?

Sadhguru has always said that temples are "energy centers". It is not a place where you go to get life solutions. GOD is not someone who will solve your problems. One must realize that life is in their hands. This is what he has always emphasized. Also, he has said that most of the problems in this world is between one man's belief vs another man's belief. Hence, according to him faith in something (without experience) is always dangerous.

See, basically there are 4 different ways to attain the ultimate or you can become enlightened using the 4 tools available to you - body (karma yoga), mind (gyan yoga), emotion (bakthi) and energy (kriya yoga). In ISHA sadhguru (or any true guru for that matter, according to sadhguru) gives the right concoction of these 4 to the seeker. Every individual is unique and so is his spiritual path. Hence, in ISHA the right method is given to the right person.

Sadhguru always says "If a guru is not enlightened then it is his problem and you (or me) not being enlightened is (y)our problem". My statement on "logical mind" was actually given by another master "nithyananda" and is not from ISHA.
OK, sadhguru was not very keen on starting an organization. Only because the volunteers insisted, he agreed to start it. It was also started to reach to as many people as possible.

I am a bit surprised about your remark on ISHA people. But, as far as I have seen, most of them are really open like you and me. Some of them who really feel strongly connected with sadhguru might be stronger in voicing their opinions. This is just my guess.

Yes patanjali gave the "Yoga sutras". The word Sutra means "thread". It is left to the master to make a garland out of it (or as sadhguru says to blow life in to it). Hence, even though patanjali's yoga sutra might work (sometimes even go awry) for anyone and everyone if practiced on own, it might not be as effective as it is in ISHA (or in other good programs like AOL). In short, in ISHA the yoga sutras are taught in "right spirits and in the right way".

Even in past, there were enlightened beings (many nayanmars or sivan adiyars) who did very simple things leading a simple life. At the same time, there were kings like janaka who were fully enlightened. Hence, enlightenment is not about what you do but all about "how" you do it? Nithyananda beautifully says " You can be an enlightened engineer, doctor, lawyer etc; leading both a social and spiritual life".

Sage Suka was teaching a number of disciples including the wise emperor, Janaka. One day, Suka started his discourse late, for, Janaka had not yet come. The others resented the extra attachment that Suka bestowed on Janaka. They ascribed it to the fact that he was the emperor of the realm; they felt that their Guru was unfortunately moved by those mundane considerations. Suka knew how their imagination was weaving falsehoods and prejudices. So, he decided to cast off this envy from their hearts.

After Janaka came and the discourse lasted for sometime, Suka so managed with his mystic powers that they could see in the far distance, near the horizon, the city of Mithila, the capital of the emperor, caught in flames and crumbling in the conflagration. The disciples were listening to Atma Bodha, the lesson that the Atma alone is real and that all else is appearance, imposed on the Atma, by the fog of illusion and ignorance. Every other disciple ran off, leaving the class and the preceptor, each on his own self, afraid that the oncoming fire will burn his clothes or books.

But Janaka, whose capital city was being reduced to ashes sat unmoved for he knew that what was being consumed by fire was only appearance and not reality. Suka himself asked Janaka to go and assess the damage and try to save what can be saved from the fire. But Janaka replied that his treasure was the Jnana (wisdom) he was getting from his master and that he was unconcerned about the objective world, approachable by external instruments of knowledge. At this Suka revealed that the fire was a make-believe, created by him to show others the depth of real scholarship earned by Janaka in contrast to their superficial learning. Do you compare a business man like JV with Janaka? It is just unreasonable.

“If a Guru is not enlightened it is his problem” is just an irresponsible statement. It is like a teacher telling a student “Why do you bother about my knowledge?” you have to earn yours. True seeker will be attracted towards gurus and believes that he is the embodiment of God himself and such a statement sounds bizarre (or just to sound different from others). I have listened to lot of Nithyananda’s discourses. In one discourse he says YOU WILL NOT GET BLISS, YOU WILL ONLY GET BLISTERS.

Is it the way a realized master treat people who are serious about spirituality? In another discourse he comments on people doing pranayama at his ashram – he says every morning all of you breath in and out with “buss buss” sound like air flowing in and out of a pump, at many instances he boasts himself and he keeps boasting himself. Now, you would conclude that I keep bashing everybody. Actually, I am disappointed with personalities like him who are very much excited with the money and fame they receive and they keep talking and they talk and they talk…

Enlightenment changes the whole perception about the way you lead your life. There will be no self interest at all. Your view becomes as big as this world. And you will lose interest in the outside world and abide as the self. This is the result. And of course, you would continue as a doctor, lawyer etc. without bothering about the result. You become a karma yogi.

Why is ISHA being promoted as the only right path? There were many yoga masters like BKS iyengar, Sri Krishnamacharya who have not attached any tag to their teachings like ISHA. They are widely known and respected by millions. There is nothing like ISHA yoga. If ISHA or AOL is the only place to learn “GENUINE” yoga (I don’t think AOL claims so), what about Krishnamacharya, BKS and other countless yoga teachers? How can you claim they are not as effective as ISHA? ISHA (which is a cult) is not the only place to learn Yoga. There are many other good places that do not do it as business.

You say that ISHA was started due to request from volunteers. In one of his interviews with Sudhangan, JV said I didn’t have any intention to start an organization, lot of people were coming in. That’s why I had to start. Now, you say volunteers insisted upon it! It is just an excuse to defend people who accuse JV is doing a business. If it was started to reach as many people, it is marketing! 

Why is it being insisted again and again Isha gives the right method? Every individual is unique and so is his path. Leave those people who are emotionally attached towards god (bhakti). I have listened to one of JV’s talks where he sarcastically makes some remarks on puranas. What is the need of it? Why he keeps ridiculing the beliefs of others? In one of his interviews with Koffee with Anu, he made some comment on “Adam and Eve”. Going by his words, he is the one who is creating a clash between faiths. This comment was unwarranted and made with publicity intention.

According to him, except ISHA, where people are asked to believe and surrender willingly, all other belief systems are meaningless and followed by senseless people which will take you to nowhere. It is stated in the sastras that for self realization a man has to follow one of these 4 yogas…or a concoction of a few or all of these 4. Do you mean to say ISHA assesses every individual, studies his mental framework and suggests a path? 

I don’t accept JV’s view that most of the problems in this world are between one man’s belief vs another man’s. It is just between fanatics who do not accept/honor others’ beliefs. If faith without experience is always DANGEROUS, experience without faith is IMPOSSIBLE. are of course energy centers. Even swami vivekananda has told that life is in your hands and that does not refrain people from going to temples for their worldly problems. If a devotee has faith in himself and god, if his prayers are sincere, it will be addressed by the deity at the temple for sure.

I have learnt yoga from a very simple man and practicing it. I did not pay any money for it. The best part is he never asked me to go and recommend it to my friends/relatives. I don’t have any interest in sitting in front of the social worker/business man JV. However, I would visit the place at least once when I get an opportunity. ISHA is just a feel good cult.